Hey it's the Kaivo beta thread! 1.0b1 is going out to folks on the beta list right now. The beta distribution is closed now, but feel free to discuss anything you like about it here.
If you made any audio you would like to share, please throw it on the Soundcloud group and post a link here. I wish we could embed Soundcloud content here, but we can't. You can embed text links using Markdown---the syntax for that is described here.
Randy, just wanted to throw this out there. Have you played with the Logic Audio plugin Sculpture?
Not for a long time, but I played it quite a bit when it came out.
My 'test' for doing this was setting up a random CC array to change each knob to a random position, and with Sculpture you get usable results about 1 out of every 5 'random' bursts, with Kaivo I'm getting good results about 1 out of every 2.
This is a pretty interesting idea and test, thanks for your investigation.
I certainly plan to expand the range of models, and if I don't get tubes in before release, I will do it soon. The nice thing about the "modes" setup is that I can add whatever capabilities I like later on.
Over here it's been so far so good. I've managed to run multiple instances of Kaivo with everything turned on & 3-4 voice polyphony and it's not done anything odd.
Metal Conch Music - this feels to me like my first "finished" piece of music with Kaivo. I used one three voice generative patch (did nothing while it ran) and a touch of Valhalla VVerb.
One feature I would like when patching is an end of cycle out for the envelopes. I use this on the modular constantly to get things swinging. Just a suggestion, of course.
To add: Kaivo has not crashed once, it feels very reliable already.
Ok, here is probably silly question. I've installed Kaivo on my W7 x64 machine and I keep getting the "Connection to this plugin was lost" in FLS11.
Here is a screen shot.
I've installed it as directed on my W8 X64 machine(which worked fine, on it) but it won't work on my W7 x64. I have tried creating folders for it in, appdata and documents folders, but it did not work. I'm sure I'm just missing something. Thanks :)
@abstractcats I have no idea what that could be. Maybe it's just related to the ungodly CPU use at present. Let's keep an eye on it in future betas.
Thanks, Randy. Hmm, strange indeed. My my desk top is core7(and about three years old) and my laptop is core5 but new, could be the new core5 is better then older core7, and it may have to do with, the core maker. Hmm, I'll keep working on my laptop, for now.
"Over here it's been so far so good. I've managed to run multiple instances of Kaivo with everything turned on & 3-4 voice polyphony and it's not done anything odd."
just curious what system are you running? I tried running only 2 on a 2.8ghz intel core i7 macbook and i could barely get them to go smoothly. I haven't investigated deeply enough to know if different modes or models or actions take up more cpu or not, but so far it only seems to be the voice amount.
Different models take up different amounts of CPU. Also, low notes on the resonators take up more CPU.
I'm going to add "none" as resonator / model options so people can save CPU or test things that way.
good to know, thanks Randy. I'll play around with it some more tonight and experiment with multiple instances and trying to be conservative with the cpu for each one. Would you say those factors you mentioned or less /equally/more important than the voice amount itself in terms of cpu usage?
one request for the final version: sample changing / model type / body all midi controllable. On Live I am unable to access those with a midi controller, but maybe it's just a Live thing, does it work in other hosts?
this plugin is amazing Randy, thanks for all your hard work
edit: trying to CV 2 midi kaivo externally (using an analogue solutions eurorack module) and its choking quite a bit, i think any really fast midi control seems to spike the CPU.
right now I'm trying 4 ccs at the same time along with midi note pitch and none on/off.
Would you say those factors you mentioned or less /equally/more important than the voice amount itself in terms of cpu usage?
Er, well, it's changing every day right now--- I'm just working to make it better.
one request for the final version: sample changing / model type / body all midi controllable. On Live I am unable to access those with a midi controller, but maybe it's just a Live thing, does it work in other hosts?
This is about the menu controls just not working with MIDI right now. I will see if I can add that.
that's great, i wasn't envisioning doing anything too fancy with midi control over those but it would be cool to be able to have a slow sequence changing those parameters tempo synced to a regular note pattern. But it would also probably be really weird (but nice) To let you modulate those choices internally apart from midi too.
The thing is, it won't be useful the way most modulators would be useful, because the sound will be interrupted---one kind of model has to be built and another one taken away. But I can see it would be handy maybe if you had a control surface and were designing patches.
The thing is, it won't be useful the way most modulators would be useful, because the sound will be interrupted---one kind of model has to be built and another one taken away. But I can see it would be handy maybe if you had a control surface and were designing patches.
Grabbed the new beta and am now able to run it. Good work on making it take up far less CPU. I still can't play more than 2 voices at once without some serious breakup and the UI is highly unresponsive. It's still a damn amazing product that makes damn amazing sounds.
I still can't play more than 2 voices at once without some serious breakup and the UI is highly unresponsive.
Ouch, what kind of CPU / OS are you running? 32 or 64 bit? Thanks.
This is on my shopping list , I have Aalto which I make happy accidents with , Im no synth or sound designer at all , I hope you email Aalto license owners upon release of Kaivo ...
Thx Todd
Ouch, what kind of CPU / OS are you running? 32 or 64 bit? Thanks.
Core i5 750
Windows 7 32-bit
Ableton Live 9.1
Hmm, well I think that machine should be running more voices!
If you close the Kaivo window, does that help? It's possible there is something weird going on with graphics.
If you stop audio, does the UI become responsive?
thanks
take my money, gimme the beta!!
If you close the Kaivo window, does that help? It's possible there is something weird going on with graphics.
Yes. I tested with the default patch. It immediately starts crackling (4 voices) on launch. If I close the Kaivo window, the crackling stops happening, so the UI seems to have something to do with it.
Interestingly, if I record the crackling audio and then play it back with the Kaivo window closed, it sounds fine. If I play the audio file with the Kaivo window open (Kaivo is not playing any audio), I get the same crackling.
If you stop audio, does the UI become responsive?
No, that doesn't help. Just to be clear about what I mean regarding UI responsiveness, I'm referring to things such as the shape of the envelope not updating smoothly when changing parameters. Aalto's envelopes are snappy and redraw immediately on param change. Kaivo's seem to lag heavily. Same with the noise offset. I have no idea if this is my machine or if others experience the same thing.
e: Displaying the Kaivo window makes my CPU load meter jump from 4% to 60%. Hiding it drops it back to 4%.
No, that doesn't help. Just to be clear about what I mean regarding UI responsiveness, I'm referring to things such as the shape of the envelope not updating smoothly when changing parameters. Aalto's envelopes are snappy and redraw immediately on param change. Kaivo's seem to lag heavily. Same with the noise offset. I have no idea if this is my machine or if others experience the same thing.
Thanks for explaining better. So, that's not a problem. Because Kaivo does so much drawing, I do draw those things like envelopes at a lower priority so they are less likely to get in the way. Aalto is going to be more like this with the next update.
e: Displaying the Kaivo window makes my CPU load meter jump from 4% to 60%. Hiding it drops it back to 4%.
What if you turn 'anim' off, what does that do?
What if you turn 'anim' off, what does that do?
No change.
I have sped up drawing to the screen using OpenGL, and it works on Mac and Windows here, but I wonder if this is going slower on your machine for some reason.
Do you know if you have a recent, or any, OpenGL driver? A good place to start looking would be here: [http://www.opengl.org/wiki/Getting_Started#Windows]
If you want to try upgrading your drivers that would be interesting. if not, maybe I'll send you a version with OpenGL turned off and we can see what happens.
I have recently updated drivers for my graphics card which do contain OpenGL drivers. I assume latest. It's a bog standard mid-tier Nvidia gaming card. I'll check later to see if there are some beta drivers available and test if you'd like. I'd be willing to test a non-OpenGL version as well.
OK, thanks for the update, I'll try sending you an OpenGL-free version in a bit.
Just had time to check out the new beta, here is what I have noticed:
- Performance is drastically better. I get double the voices now.
- the limiter is much nicer, very clean. Still would love an overdrive possibility
- the new synthetic harmonic banks are beautiful, they remind me of the E350 module.
- that chorus is wonderful, almost too good. A bit like the Juno 60. You should release it as standalone.
- Spring resonators sounds great!
Off to play with it more!
Ok, this may be related to the "resonator notes being fixed at 3kHz": In a patch I am working on Kaivo locks up with sad little high-pitched "feep" and has to be reloaded, once I get up to C3 and C4, with keyboard pitch info sent to the grain and resonator engine, as well as the body. I'll email you the patch in question.
Ok, I seemed to have lost my mind. Made a few silly errors. Not building the Appdata directory correctly, I've done that and second, I've been using the x64 version of FL Studio and have got on to using the "real" aka x32 version of FLS, sorry, guys. Any way I have my system sorted and every thing seems good. All presets seem to play normally and I cam save fine. Now! To make some presets and demo audio. :) And the CPU is indeed, better with the latest beta. :)